I've rated every ep - what do you think?

[partcynic]

In the spirit of some good on-topic-ery, here's a Buffy challenge. By now, everyone should have seen each Buffy episode loads of times, and know what your favourites and least favourites are. What you have to do is rank them on a 0-10 scale where your favourite episodes (ie the ones you think are best) get 10s and the ones you like least are 0s - and all of the other numbers in between.

Here's my ratings list. I'm happy to discuss any rating, so if you want to tell me how right I am, or ask how I gave your favourite episode a '1', feel free. It would be great to see other people posting their lists too.

I averaged the results of every season too; although these averages don't necessarily mean one season is better than another, they do show how I feel about each accurately:

S1 = 6.08
S2 = 6.55
S3 = 6.36
S4 = 5.86
S5 = 4.81
S6 = 2.50
S7 = 2.59

0 6x10 Wrecked
0 6x13 Dead Things
0 6x14 Older and Far Away
0 7x17 Lies My Parents Told Me
0 7x19 Empty Places

1 6x06 All the Way
1 6x12 Doublemeat Palace
1 6x16 Hell's Bells
1 7x02 Beneath You
1 7x04 Help
1 7x10 Bring On the Night
1 7x11 Showtime

2 2x11 Ted
2 3x02 Dead Man's Party
2 4x02 Living Conditions
2 5x13 Blood Ties
2 5x20 Spiral
2 5x21 The Weight of the World
2 6x04 Flooded
2 6x05 Life Serial
2 6x09 Smashed
2 6x18 Entropy
2 6x20 Villains
2 6x22 Grave
2 7x05 Selfless
2 7x15 Get It Done
2 7x20 Touched
2 7x21 End of Days

3 4x13 The I In Team
3 4x14 Goodbye, Iowa
3 5x05 No Place Like Home
3 5x10 Into the Woods
3 5x17 Forever
3 6x01 Bargaining, Part One
3 6x02 Bargaining, Part Two
3 6x03 After Life
3 6x15 As You Were
3 6x17 Normal Again
3 6x19 Seeing Red
3 6x21 Two To Go
3 7x07 Conversations With Dead People
3 7x08 Sleeper
3 7x12 Potential
3 7x13 The Killer In Me

4 1x08 I, Robot... You, Jane
4 2x05 Reptile Boy
4 2x12 Bad Eggs
4 2x18 Killed By Death
4 3x04 Beauty and the Beasts
4 3x07 Revelations
4 3x11 Gingerbread
4 3x15 Consequences
4 4x05 Beer Bad
4 4x08 Pangs
4 5x04 Out of My Mind
4 5x09 Listening to Fear
4 5x11 Triangle
4 5x19 Tough Love
4 6x11 Gone
4 7x01 Lessons
4 7x06 Him
4 7x09 Never Leave Me
4 7x14 First Date
4 7x18 Dirty Girls

5 1x04 Teacher's Pet
5 1x10 Nightmares
5 1x11 Out of Mind, Out of Sight
5 2x01 When She Was Bad
5 2x02 Some Assembly Required
5 2x08 The Dark Age
5 2x15 Phases
5 2x20 Go Fish
5 3x14 Bad Girls
5 4x01 The Freshman
5 4x07 The Initiative
5 4x11 Doomed
5 4x17 Superstar
5 4x18 Where The Wild Things Are
5 5x02 Real Me
5 5x06 Family
5 5x08 Shadow
5 5x12 Checkpoint
5 5x14 Crush
5 7x03 Same Time, Same Place
5 7x16 Storyteller
5 7x22 Chosen

6 1x01 Welcome to the Hellmouth
6 1x02 The Harvest
6 1x03 Witch
6 1x05 Never Kill A Boy On the First Date
6 1x09 The Puppet Show
6 2x07 Lie To Me
6 3x03 Faith, Hope and Trick
6 3x05 Homecoming
6 3x10 Amends
6 3x12 Helpless
6 3x13 The Zeppo
6 4x06 Wild At Heart
6 4x09 Something Blue
6 4x20 The Yoko Factor
6 5x03 The Replacement
6 5x22 The Gift

7 1x07 Angel
7 2x04 Inca Mummy Girl
7 2x09 What's My Line, Part One
7 2x10 What's My Line, Part Two
7 3x01 Anne
7 3x17 Enemies
7 3x19 Choices
7 3x20 The Prom
7 4x04 Fear, Itself
7 4x12 A New Man
7 4x15 This Year's Girl
7 4x19 New Moon Rising
7 4x21 Primeval
7 5x15 I Was Made To Love You
7 5x16 The Body
7 5x18 Intervention
7 6x08 Tabula Rasa

8 1x06 The Pack
8 2x06 Halloween
8 2x13 Surprise
8 2x16 Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered
8 2x19 I Only Have Eyes For You
8 3x06 Band Candy
8 3x09 The Wish
8 3x21 Graduation Day, Part One
8 3x22 Graduation Day, Part Two
8 4x03 The Harsh Light of Day
8 4x16 Who Are You?
8 5x01 Buffy Vs Dracula
8 6x07 Once More, With Feeling

9 1x12 Prophecy Girl
9 2x03 School Hard
9 2x14 Innocence
9 2x21 Becoming, Part One
9 2x22 Becoming, Part Two
9 3x08 Lover's Walk
9 3x16 Doppelgangland
9 3x18 Earshot
9 4x22 Restless
9 5x07 Fool For Love

10 2x17 Passion
10 4x10 Hush

[cyclica]

I doubt if I could make a full list, I have a few set favourites but with most eps my opinion changes all the time. I do however agree with your placing of season 6 & 7 episodes at the bottom. Though I'm not sure I would have put 'passions' at the top, it never really stood out as a great ep to me.

[partcynic]

Hi! It's always good to hear from a fellow S6-S7 non-fan, and I'm glad that you agree with my placing those episodes near the bottom. But onto 'Passion' - yep, I absolutely love it, and if pushed I would probably call it my favourite episode of the show (although it's hard to make a solid decision with Hush and Becoming Two so close behind), and I'll explain why.

Going back to S6/S7, I always found the biggest problem to be the amount of cheap soap-opera tear-jerking that went on, with the characters getting forced around by the writers - pulled in whatever direction the story needed in an effort to obtain some cheap emotional effect (Hell's Bells comes to mind here with its arbitrary and cliched jilting plot). Passion is the reverse of that - for me, it's one of the most genuinely emotional and saddening eps of the show, and together with Innocence and Becoming, provides a massive part of the emotional force of the show's best story arc. Despite all of the monstrous goings-on, Sunnydale always felt innocent as nearly all of those who died were villains or one-shot characters we couldn't really care about. Passion removed that innocence, and for the first time things felt threatening. The chase scene leading to Jenny's death was wonderfully tense, suspenseful and ended in such a shocking and blunt manner that no unspoiled viewer could have predicted. Everyone's subsequent reactions to Jenny's death were so real and so beautifully handled (the scene where Buffy and Willow get the call from Giles and break down while Angelus smirks outside is stunning). We see Giles darker and in more pain than we've ever known, and witness Buffy's strength despite her pain. Similarly, this is the first time Angelus ever felt as horrific as he'd been made out to be - the stalking, the killing, the set-up at Giles' apartment - all so disquieting, all so tense and believable. And let's not forget the monologue on the nature of passion. Real, emotional, highly truthful about human nature. The musical scoring is among the show's best, and we even hear a little melody from Tony Head (he added a vocal melody to the instrumental track playing as Buffy and Giles stand at Jenny's grave). Spike and Dru as delightfully funny and vicious as ever; and the ending with Buffy realising the Angel she loved has gone while the disc with the saved restoration spell falls between the desks was superb.

So overall, we have a funny, violent, scary and suspenseful episode, full of powerful and meaningful drama that changes the show forever and provides believable and interesting character development for everyone. And on top of that, it makes a profound philosophical statement.

That's why I put it among the very best.

[jennf10]

Well, Season 6 was about the gang growing up. Giles left. Buffy gets a job. Willow gets addicted. Xander almost gets married. That's why the Trio were good villians in this season. They really were fighting growing up and becoming grown ups. All of their toys were designed for men trying to keep ahold of their youth. This is probably why Season 6 was so hard on everyone. It had to be dark in order for the gang to grow up.

Season 7 was just the last goodbye to the fans. Most of the potentials were annoying. I did like Robin Wood's character. I liked them bringing Faith back. I liked Caleb and the idea of going against the First Evil. The ending could have been a LOT better.

I agree with you on Passions. That is probably the BEST episode of the early seasons.

[partcynic]

Hey! Thanks for the reply, great to hear you liked Passion too. But onto S6... It's interesting to see that you mention that Season being about growing up - as none of the characters did grow up. At all. They made lots of mistakes, but never learnt from them. Did Xander overcome his fear of becoming his father? No - in Two To Go/Grave and Beneath You, he's still failing to understand that he's the villain in his situation with Anya, or what motivated him to leave her at the altar
(as poorly explained as those motivations were). So no growth there.

What about Buffy? Did she come to any grand realisations about life, learn that having a black-and-white view of things and hiding from your problems is self-destructive? Nope. She still shies away, isolates herself - and still fails to see that her emotional abuse of Spike during S6 was horrific. Even worse, she's learnt nothing from Warren et al's villainy (and the fact that Warren was the evilest being we've seen on the show) -she's still saying that humans=good; demons=bad - when in reality, there's an even mix, so you can't judge. So no growth. And about her job? For a 'realistic' Season, I'd like to know how one minimum wage job runs a household.

As for Willow... well, that's too much to mess with. The instant magic became synonymous with crack, her character (and the concept of magic in the Buffyverse) went down the toilet. While she does control her magic by Chosen, it's all very arbitrary, and her powers and willingness vary each week simply because the writers made her too powerful and had to chop her down so future plots could work.

The nerds. They were passable villains, but mostly poor. The geek jokes were cute for one episode, but not for a whole Season (and then Andrew in S7 and those few Angel S5 eps). Their arc wasn't really that meaningful (not growing up=bad; which we were already seeing in the Scoobs - how many variations on the same theme does anyone need?), which leaves a couple of melodramatic villain appearances (Dead Things; Seeing Red). Okay, but nowhere near as good as any villains before since their story didn't justify the large amount of time it got.

I could go on, but I'd suggest that S6 wasn't so much about darkness and growing up, more about going for cheap emotional manipulation and not caring if it made sense plot or character-wise. Everything was so laborious and heavy handed; there were basically four episodes for the year that got dragged out into 22.

S7 was left to clear up the mess, so it's not surprising that it mostly failed.

[jennf10]

Interesting point of view on Season 6. It is certainly not one of the best episodes. Joss was not really involved in 6 or 7 because he was developing "Firefly" for the WB.

Buffy never really let go of the "being apart from everyone" mentality. Especially in Season 7, when she had all those kids in her house. But isn't that part of the Slayer mentality? Faith wasn't much of a joiner, neither was Kendra.

About Willow, I agree with you to a point. I think her character was always the one most likely to fall, which is why they let her do so. As for Xander, I think he was the one who grew up the most. He didn't married Anya because he knew it wasn't right for him. That is a very grown up thing to admit. And he saved the world at the end of Season 6.

Season 6 hurt greatly from the lack of Tony Head. He really should have been more apart of it. The show was just better with him around. Just my opinion.

Nothing will compare to Season 2 and 3 of Buffy. They were just the best seasons. Again, my opinion.

[partcynic]

jennf10 said:

Nothing will compare to Season 2 and 3 of Buffy. They were just the best seasons. Again, my opinion.

Oh, I totally agree. My ratings for S2/S3 average out at about 6.45 out of 10, which means they were truly excellent (compared to S6, which averages at about 2.5). Those years were both excellent - 44 of the best pieces of episodic television there will ever be.

Ditto about lack of Tony Head hurting S6. Although Giles was rarely the centre of attention, he was one of the most important characters on the show and the Buffy/Giles bond one of the most important relationships. When Tony left it created a huge void that no amount of soap shenanigans could fill.

With Willow, my issue isn't so much that she screwed up, rather the way it happened. Wrecked fell flat (note I gave it a '0') because it recodified Willow's problem as magic itself (demonising magic), when it was Willow's decisions about what she did with magic that was the real problem. Her self-esteem issues were never examined or resolved, which was a shame since that story had been building right from the start of the show. The whole addiction and meltdown after Tara's death was a poor substitute for what should have been a meaningful story about an individual whose hubris becomes their downfall.

[partcynic]

NB - This list has been edited out to avoid confusion. I modified my ratings, and left them in the head post on this page.

[cyclica]

What do you have against Normal Again?

It was interesting to find out a little bit about what buffy's life was like before she moved to sunnydale, and buffy being put into a mental hospital after constantly talking about vampires to her parents seemed realistic, if a tad upsetting (but it couldnt have been all that bad, she seemed happy during season 1).

The only problem I had with normal again was the lack of anya. And at least there was a plot related reason for her absence, unlike a few certain s7 eps, where she just wasn't there.

[partcynic]

Ah, Normal Again. I could write on lot on this, but I'll try and keep things fairly short.

First of all, let's look at the "is it all a dream?" concept. This is something that has been done on just about every soap opera and cheaply-made melodrama going, and I can't think of a single show that's been able to do it well - even shows like The Simpsons that by nature try and subvert dramatic cliches. And it is a gigantic cliche, which tries to shallowly emotionally manipulate the viewer by threatening to transform the entire established universe. Besides the lack of originality inherent in an 'asylum' story (I believe Charmed did one just as horrible as this), let's look at the ending. The ep concludes by suggesting that Buffy is in fact a mental patient, which is not only a horrid and overused cliche, but completely invalidates the premise of the entire series - is Buffy an inspiring feminist hero? Nope, she's just a sad weepy loser too damaged to deal with high school, resorting to an elaborate world of revenge fantasies and needing to be locked away in a patriarchal institution. It makes me ask why we bothered with all of those previous episodes, or why Joss bothered making the show at all.

Speaking of cliches, do I even need to mention the psychotic mental patient going crazy? That's been done in every bad horror film ever made.

Then, it's actually pretty dubious that Buffy had been in an asylum - looks like cheap revisionist history to me. Not only does Buffy's behaviour in the first season or so seem to contradict this (as you said, she seemed happy enough), there are also several questionable moments where you'd think it would come up. Big one is in Bad Eggs, where Joyce asks Buffy what she's been thinking about, and Buffy replies 'saving the world from vampires', to which Joyce looks rather amused. Now, if Buffy had been to an asylum, why bring that up and risk being sent back? Why wouldn't Joyce be shocked or worried? Yes, she's a bit selective as to her memory, but we've just drifted into bad writing here. And why doesn't the asylum issue crop up in early S3 when Joyce is dealing with Buffy's slayerness? You'd have thought an 'I'm sorry I sent you to a nuthouse' would have come up.

Characterisation. This ep is full of Buffy moping and Dawn shrieking and whining. Not one scene of this episode is pleasant, interesting or meaningful to watch in any way - and it doesn't tell us anything new about anyone. Who needs more moping, when the Season reached its whine quotient about ten episodes previously?

Pacing. The ep is very slow. It takes a long time for things to happen, and overall very little does happen.

Dialogue. There's no wit. Nothing meaningful or interesting is said. Most of the 'emotional' dialogue is pure hack, such as Xander's horrid 'hole in my heart' and the final asylum conversation with Joyce. Much of what is said sounds like something from a 12 year old's first 'deep' venture into fiction, and not the quality that the Buffy writers have repeatedly proved themselves capable of attaining.

Acting. The moment when Buffy reveals her asylum secret to Willow is pure soap opera. Completely devoid of any depth or real feeling. Compare SMG's performance in Becoming or Innocence with her here - how the mighty have fallen.

I could write more, but this has gotten long enough. For me, the ep is slow, emotionless, witless, lacking in interesting or believable character development, full of cliches, badly acted and damaging to the established universe with its retcons and ending. And for me that's more than enough it make it 'worthy' of a mark of 0. Not quite as bad as Empty Places, but pretty close.

Of course, this is all just opinion - but where's the fun in saying that Any other eps' ratings look a little low/high? Like I said, I'm happy to discuss my viewpoint on any episode.

[cyclica]

You seem to have listed only 142 episodes there. You have left out showtime, and another ep.

[partcynic]

Thanks for the catch, have now corrected that. Showtime and Gingerbread bring it to a full 144.

[coco]

I agree with most of your placements but i would have to say that they body, in my opinion, would be one of the top episodes. why it placed below Doppelgangland, even though that is a good episode too.

p.s.: i agree with the placement of season 6 episodes.

[partcynic]

Ok, The Body. It's a bit of a tough episode to rate. If I was comparing it to anything else on television, it would be a definite, bona fide ten. It's one of the few realistic and believable media portrayals of death, loss and grief I've seen, and is very well-written, acted and constructed. But in my list, I'm just comparing Buffy vs Buffy - and there, The Body's flaws become more apparent.

If the ep had been done in Season 1 or 2, I'd have scored it higher. But it was done in S5. The Body is essentially Joss's 'dealing with death' episode, and centres on two factors - that everyone must learn that they're mortal, and that you may be 'left behind'/abandoned when loved ones die. Now, the show was trying to talk to an audience that may be unaware of death, but to do that it has to do odd things with the characters. This ep paints them as innocents seeing death for the first time - but they're not. For this episode to work, it needed to be done four years previously.

Let's discuss the individual reactions. Of course, Buffy and Dawn's reaction is perfectly in character and to be expected (after all, Joyce was their mother). Anya and Tara are also fine. But with Willow and Xander, it gets a bit silly. The Body wants Joyce to be everyone's mother figure - but she wasn't. Xander and Willow never had a particularly close relationship with her (it's even questionable how close she and Buffy were). Joyce was just a friend's mother - it's certainly sad and a little weird that she died, but they're pushed to silly points to get across the theme. Would they be sympathetic? Certainly. But Willow's breakdown and Xander putting his fist through a wall aren't signs of sympathy, but their own problems dealing with death - which they should be fairly used to by now, having already lost people they were far closer to - like a best friend (Jesse), teacher and fellow Scooby (Jenny) and many, many of their friends and classmates (in Graduation Day, and throughout the first three years). Is Joyce's death sad? Yes. But harder to deal with than other, more traumatic experiences? Nope.

The Body stumbles because it's an episode about a group of innocents dealing with death for the first time through the loss of their mother. Thing is, they're not innocents any more, have plenty of experience of death, and for most of them, the 'mother' was neither their actual mother nor someone they were close to.

Is the ep good? Most definitely. But I don't think it's the best of Buffy.

PS- Glad to hear you agree with my S6 episode placements. Boy, did those eps suck.

[cyclica]

Ok I've finally done it, worked out my own list of best to worst buffy eps.

Note that this list is of what buffy episodes I *enjoy* the most. You may feel I have put a well written/acted episode too low, or a poorly written/acted ep too high, and I may even agree with you, but I cannot rate the eps in order of how good they are (too hard!), only by how much I want to watch them. Still, if you want to discuss my placing of the episodes, please feel free.

From best to worst:

Restless
Spiral
Storyteller
Pangs
I was made to love you
The zeppo
Living conditions
The replacement
Same time, same place
Hush
Triangle
Him
School hard
Band candy
Fear, itself
No place like home
A new man
The body
Doppelgangland
Conversations with dead people
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
Life serial
Superstar
The gift
Selfless
Earshot
Some assembly required
The freshman
Something blue
Buffy vs dracula
Phases
Intervention
Revelations
Faith, hope and trick
Two to go
Puppet show
The wish
Family
Homecoming
Fool for love
Bad eggs
Once more with feeling
Who are you?
Dead mans party
Where the wild things are
Checkpoint
Never kill a boy on the first date
The harsh light of day
Real me
The i in team
Dead things
Lovers walk
Helpless
The weight of the world
Tabula rasa
Chosen
Entropy
Out of sight out of mind
Halloween
Grave
End of days
Welcome to the hellmouth
Becoming 1 & 2
Gingerbread
Killed by death
Forever
Older and further away
Witch
Ted
Beer bad
Innocence
Graduation day 1 & 2
Teachers pet
Beauty and the beasts
The yoko factor
Hells bells
Whats my line 1 & 2
Nightmares
I only have eyes for you
Bargaining 1
Wild at heart
I robot you jane
This year's girl
Prophecy girl
Tough love
The pack
Go fish
Flooded
The prom
New moon rising
The initiative
Surprise
Primeval
Never leave me
The harvest
Shadow
Doomed
Blood ties
Passions
Anne
Villains
Bad girls
Goodbye iowa
Reptile boy
Normal again
Help
Choices
Angel
Amends
Gone
Crush
Inca mummy girl
Doublemeat palace
Lessons
Bargaining 2
Seeing red
Out of my mind
The killer in me
Listening to fear
The dark age
Empty places
Enemies
Potential
When she was bad
All the way
Consequences
Sleeper
Lies my parents told me
Wrecked
Lie to me
Dirty girls
Into the woods
Bring on the night
Beneath you
Get it done
Smashed
After life
First date
As you were
Touched
Showtime